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To eat or not to eat, that is the question

Discussion in 'Food, Drink, Diet & Recipes for Herpes' started by Salsalover, Mar 27, 2009.

  1. Salsalover

    Salsalover Newbie

    Is it just me or every time you search for a guide of what to eat and avoid, there are mixed messages all over the place. Just look at the guide of this website.
    http://www.herpes-coldsores.com/diet_and_nutrition_with_herpes.htm

    To help reduce outbreaks eat a diet that is high in foods that are rich in Lysine, and low in Arginine, such as:
    Milk and dairy products (including ice-cream, cheese and yogurt)
    Eggs
    Tomatoes
    Fish
    Lamb
    Beef
    Chicken

    Avoid arginine rich foods:
    Broccoli (0.969 lysine/arginine index)
    Cabbage (0.833 lysine/arginine index)
    Brussel Sprouts (0.730 lysine/arginine index)
    Tomato Soup (0.836 lysine/arginine index)
    Grapes (0.310 - 0.308 lysine/arginine index)
    Grape Juice (0.210 lysine/arginine index)

    Highly acidic foods which may want to be reduced or avoided:
    Tomatoes
    Fish
    Lamb
    Beef
    Poultry (Chicken)
    Fruit Juices with Sugar
    Yogurt (sweetened)
    Citrus fruits (lime juice)

    High Alkaline foods which could be helpful:
    Lemons
    Limes
    Fruit Juices
    Grapes (sweet)


    Broccoli, cabbage and brussels sprouts are all naturally high in a compound called indole-3-carbinol (I3C) which clinical studies show may have the potential to interfere with the way the Herpes simplex virus reproduces.[2] The preliminary trial results are very promising, so eat up on this nutritious vegetables whenever possible.


    Anyone have any idea which of these foods are good and which are bad overall?
  2. MsLucy

    MsLucy Well-Known Member

    There's good and bad in everything. The trick is to eat everything in moderation. My personal philosophy is to eat whatever I please, and if my body has any objections, it will let me know. The only thing that's affected it adversely, as far as obs are concerned, is large quantities of chocolate. Then again, why go the movies if you can't have a box or Rainsinettes with your popcorn? Some things are just worth the ob you know is waiting in the wings. ;)
  3. lifesstillgood

    lifesstillgood Active Member

    I eat all the foods you listed on the bad list. They have no effect on me. I do stay away from artificial sweeteners though. As far as I3C, I take DIM which is what it breaks down to. It is considered much safer for you then I3C.
  4. aliciahere

    aliciahere Newbie

    I hear you about how confusing the information is out there. I've tried to do more research into this, but it is difficult to find. What I have found, I have put into practice and I have had good results.

    After going through the forums here, and the alkaline forums, I've modified a food list for myself that works for me. I never say I "can't" have any type of food, moderation is key. In general, I avoid processed/packaged food, and load up on fruits and veggies. It's whatever works for you. If you only make one change to your diet - eat 10 servings of fruits and veggies a day and see how you feel - I bet you will feel a lot better and have fewer outbreaks.

    When I don't have an outbreak I try to follow this list:

    Good Foods (load up on):

    Fruits and Veggies (all)
    Sprouted Grain Products, Quinoa, Flax, Millett
    Olive Oil
    Almonds
    Eggs
    Maple Syrup
    Herbal Teas

    Foods to eat in moderation:

    Meat
    Brown grains
    Dairy Products - Yoghurt, sour cream, and cottage cheese is best
    Nuts (otehr than Almonds - see above)
    Beans
    Caffinated Teas, Coffee
    Chocolate

    Foods to reduce as much as possible:

    White Grains
    Processed foods
    Pre-packaged foods
    Artificial Sweetners
    Alchohol

    When I feel I have an outbreak coming on, or if I have an outbreak, I still continue to follow the diet listed above, but I up the amount of hard cheeses, chicken, and fish that I am having.

    I have had really good luck with this. I have had one outbreak and one incident where an outbreak "threatened", and both times were related to when I didn't eat properly *for a few days*. Normaly once I got a cold sore, I would reinfect myself and almost have a constant cold sore for over a month. The one outbreak I did have lasted about a week. I have coincidently lost about 10 lbs too - which is bonus.
  5. Old Spice

    Old Spice Newbie

    I see in most forums that Whole wheat is also not good.
    I eat sandwiches for lunch most day using brown bread thinking its healthier & then noticed it has wholemeal flour in as does most white bread. Is there a difference.
    I mean is wholemal bread good or bad for us sufferers or white bread.

    I note Tomatoes is on the good and bad list on the main topic.:confused:

    I guess all our bodies have the trigger food and its about finding out what they are. Sadly they are most things we enjoy!
  6. Old Spice

    Old Spice Newbie

    Actually I noticed the list on the main topic of foods high in Lysine is almost the same as the foods to be avoided below it:confused: where did that list come from its quite confusing

    To help reduce outbreaks eat a diet that is high in foods that are rich in Lysine, and low in Arginine, such as:
    Milk and dairy products (including ice-cream, cheese and yogurt)
    Eggs
    Tomatoes
    Fish
    Lamb
    Beef
    Chicken


    Highly acidic foods which may want to be reduced or avoided:
    Tomatoes
    Fish
    Lamb
    Beef
    Poultry (Chicken)
  7. curiousinla

    curiousinla Newbie

    Oh, this sucks. The lists are the same. I'm on WW, and I eat constantly now, not to mention that it's all the healthly stuff. But I eat lots of brocolli. I don't know if it's making me heal slowly or what. My doc told me to keep healthy. I have lots of water, 5 fuits and veggies, minimal chocolate, and I haven't had a drink in over a month. I'm the happiest person ever.

    Am I doing something wrong? I take a Lysine supplement every day (1000mg). Is there a right and wrong food list? Again, my doc said that he'd be thrilled if the virus would read the rule book. Works for me.
  8. Old Spice

    Old Spice Newbie

    :pcuriousinla I agree with you for just with a healthy diet avoiding a lot of certain foods.

    If you read the website here for healthy foods to eat or high in Lysine + look at the chart with the foods high in Lysine, they all contradict. Assuming a good diet is high in Lysine.

    If you look at the chart, broccoli,carrots and cabbage are all higher in Arginine than Lysine:( yet they say eat more veg.

    I have just started to take Lysine 2 x 500mg a day and Im trying to cut out bread, chocolate & booze for a few weeks (torture) to see if it makes a difference. Only 1 week in though. I reckon everyone has there own trigger foods and its just finding out what they are.

    Good luck
    :p
  9. readytolearn

    readytolearn Member

    Yeah, the whole food thing is really frustrating. I recently cut out all dairy products ie anything made with cows milk. Apparently it messes up my auto immune response which makes it hard for me to fight the OB's. I've also cut back on alcohol and coffee. I'm certainly not going to cut them out completely but I do find that I feel better with out them constantly in my life which I didn't think I would manage 8 weeks ago. I do agree with the moderation comment as well. Too much of anything will eventually turn sour you know?
  10. brittface

    brittface Newbie

    Hey.. let me know if that works for u ok . idk where to even start in how to know what sets me off :/ so frustrating


  11. brittface

    brittface Newbie

    Sooo.. yes eat them , or dont eat them??. Sounds like u can eat them cuz they r high in Lysine, but to becareful of how much cuz they r highly acidic. but the tomatoes, and eggs is towards the bottom of the list meaning they have a lot of arginine...? Im confused :mad:

  12. lilkoka

    lilkoka Newbie

    It's a little confusing with the diet, but I always think if theres a major contradiction about a certain food, eat it in moderation, and if you have to focus more on one avoid acidic foods rather that lys/arg ratio. Thats what lysine supplements help with - so if you think your arginine levels might be slightly high, take more lysine.

    I've started adding lemon to my water (very stong alkalising effect in the body and may help neutralise other foods)
    Definite foods to avoid (which make a huge difference for me) include;
    caffeine
    diet coke or fizzy drinks (very acidic! and full of sweeteners - prob the worst thing!)
    sweeteners/ gelatine sweets
    chocolate
    It seems obvious..... but

    I always thought I was really healthy, by consuming mainly fruit, veg, fish and grains... but i din't realise the terrible effect all the coffee, tea, diet coke, sugar free sweets...e.t.c. were having on me!

    Most processed, artificially sweetened, high sugar foods are prob a big no-no!
  13. hippymama

    hippymama Newbie

    There a two schools of thought. I guess you can take your pick...if high lysine doesn't work go to acid/alk. They completely contradict eachother. And neither may work.
    I have squeezed lemon into a liter of water for over 20 yrs. I contracted H2 about 8 mos ago and seem to have near constant OB.
    I do not eat sugar and starches except for a couple ry crisp crackers several times/week. I use stevia if i want a sweetener.
    I eat lots of cultured dairy and make my own buttermilk and yogurt.
    I drink a latte each morning.
    I eat meat, some fish, cheese, eggs, fresh vegies, etc.
    You would think, high lysine, right?
    I have given up nuts and chocolate for the most part.
    No help so far.
    As of Saturday, I am having none of the no-no's except the latte...We'll see.

    Oh, and i see soy products on one high lyseine list and they are listed as don'ts on others.
    I'm not sure i believe the acid/alk theory. I was a vegetarian/vegan/raw fooder for over twenty years and all it did was ruin my health....can't go back there.
  14. Old Spice

    Old Spice Newbie

    Update

    Hi

    :)Well I thought Id post up after going on the first ever Arginine/Lysine change my eating habits and all that stuff diet

    BTW I have had it down there for 20 years and have always on average 2 OB per month, so believe me I am a old hand at the old tingles then saying " Oh FFS not again". My wife contracted it after 2 years (yeah I felt like s--t) & felt 100 x worse than when I was diagnosed. luckily she has hardly had any OB and copes well and we are happily married for 10 years.

    Anyway the past 3 weeks I cut out:
    Coffee x 2 in a day & went to deaf
    1/4 teaspoon sugar instead of 1.
    No Choc
    No booze
    Only sarnies 1 day in a week
    No wholemeal stuff

    I took
    2 x Liquorice morn & eve
    1 x High strength Zinc
    1 x Lysine 500mg morn & eve.

    GUESS WHAT!

    After the 5th day I had one of my worst OB.:confused::confused::confused::confused:
    I could not believe it, my heart sunk and I contemplated castrating myself

    So this past week I am still taking the same med & have gone back to eating what I want but have still ate about half of the bread & hardly any choc. So far so good.

    As I said before I am convinced that it’s a sensible diet avoiding your own trigger foods, that’s quite hard to establish unless you write a diary and cut out certain foods.

    I do not believe that you can spend the rest of your life on a cocktail of pills every day.

    For me it’s after a combination of a few drinks a couple of rough nights sleep & regular hanky panky it starts to wake up.

    Keep smiling :D:D& being positive coz if you don’t it will win

    :D:D
  15. kaistenolee

    kaistenolee Newbie

    Hi Everyone,
    There are some things which are to be eaten and which are not. I am giving some item here.

    Foods to Emphasize
    Especially during active cases of Herpes

    • Vegetables
    • Legumes
    • Dairy products if not allergic to them (Cheese, Yogurt, Kefir, Cottage Cheese, Sour Cream, Milk).
    • All Fish & Seafood
    • Chicken
    • Turkey
    • Eggs
    • Organ Meats
    • Potatoes
    • Brewers Yeast
    Foods to be Eaten with Discretion
    These foods must be balanced with L-Lysine* and foods in the first group when herpes is inactive. During active herpes, these foods must be eliminated.

    • Whole grain products (Cereals, Bread, Pasta, Pancakes, Lentils, Barley and other Grains.
    • Oats
    • Corn
    • Rice
    • Peas & Beans
    • Sprouts
    • Chick Peas
    • Carob
    • Foods containing seeds (Eggplant, Tomato, Squash)
    • Fruits and Berries, which contain seeds, may be eaten.
    • Citrus Fruits (may irritate canker sores)
    * Foods high in lysine include most vegetables, legumes, fish, turkey, and chicken.
    Foods to Always Avoid


    • Chocolate
    • Peanuts and Peanut Butter
    • Sugar
    • Cakes and Sweets
    • Alcohol
    • Coffee & Tea
    • Nuts (Almonds, Brazil Nuts, Cashews, Filberts, Pecans, Walnuts)
    • Seed Meal (Tahini, Sesame Butter)
    • Sunflower Seeds
    • Coconut
    • Bleached White Flour Foods
  16. am320

    am320 Newbie

    This whole "herpes diet/lysine-arginine ratios" is more anecdotal than anything else.The science behind it is very weak to say the least.The only time you see a study that backs this theory is when a company selling supplements/herpes remedies is behind it..I have been living with hsv2 for 15 years and have experimented with all these theories. I even went on a high arginine diet that included supplements(arginine over 4000mg a day) for 6 months with no OBs.And I also ate all those forbidden foods like nuts,chocolate,coffee,wheat to name a few.And I do not take antivirals.Never have and never will!! Even the stress factor is questionable.I have deployed to Iraq multiple times and under the most stressfull conditions never had an OB.
    The times I've had OBs where during the times I was was following the so called "herpes diet/high lysine"..The bottom line is that H will do whatever it wants whenever it wants..Remember this is just a minor skin infection that could be annoying early on(1st year) but with time recurrences are less frequent and so mild that one forgets they have it. So do'nt sweat it and enjoy all those good foods and live a healthy lifestyle.

    Ok,now I am craving peanut butter/chocolate...Yummy!!!
  17. Healing

    Healing Member

    For me, I will actually begin itching and tingling if I eat a lot of peanuts, peanut butter, alcohol, corn. I have learned which foods trigger me and which are o.k. I can still drink a cup of coffee in the morning and not have a problem. I can also drink an occassional diet drink. Here's a tip... Squeeze a lemon in a glass of water every day. This is alkalizing and will keep your ph balanced all day. That doesn't mean you can go crazy, but it does help a lot.
  18. Old Spice

    Old Spice Newbie

    See topic below
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2009
  19. Old Spice

    Old Spice Newbie

    Some Good News/Hope

    [​IMG]

    :p
    I am posting with some good news, well for me personally and I hope it helps others. As you can see from my last post on page 2, I have been dealing with H down there for 20 years

    I discovered this site and got some good ideas, if nothing else just to realise I am not the only one who suffers on a regular basis.

    From my last post you can see what I tried below in April & was so disappointed when I tried
    No Choc
    No booze
    Only sarnies 1 day in a week
    No wholemeal stuff

    2 x Liquorice morn & eve
    1 x High strength Zinc
    1 x Lysine 500mg morn & eve

    And at the same time took the tablets listed and had one of my worst OB.

    BUT

    I decided as I had bought the tabs that I will finish them. So from April until now I have taken the same every day:

    I still only have Decaf coffee. (now cant taste the difference)
    I drink the same, a couple of beers a week, sometimes more.
    Around a bottle of wine per month
    I eat wholemeal bread or white bread every day for lunch
    I eat choc probably every other day, no less than before

    2 x Liquorice morn & eve
    1 x High strength Zinc
    1 x Lysine 1000mg morning only
    1 x Cod Liver oil tab

    And guess what:

    In 6 months I have had 3 small outbreaks. :grin::grin::grin:
    Some they might say that’s a lot, but not when you are used to having 2 OB a month.
    So I have cut them down by around 70%.
    In 20 years that for me is life changing.

    I really hope it continues.:razz::razz:

    I cannot say what or if any of the above is specifically making all the difference, but I am not going to change anything from now, as it has not changed my life at all eating the above.

    So I guess its just trial and error and finding your own trigger foods & what works, you cant turn your life upside down depriving yourself of food/drink, its hard enough dealing with H.

    Its such a relieft not to look down and say "oh no not again" on such a regular basis. Gets to you after 2o years!

    So there is hope even after 20 years!:razz::razz:
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2009
  20. I personally have not noticed any difference from eating all the bad foods... I drink Diet Pepsi all day long, often party on the weekends, and have my chocolate munchies when I want. I'm only 20yrs old... so I might as well bring *some* joy to my life lol.

    The only time I had a "detox session", was when I went on a diet. The diet was hell, but I didn't have any OB's. But I hadn't had any for a while previous to it or after it. Stress is certainly an important factor though.
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